tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post8192124077243465829..comments2024-01-20T06:51:58.729-08:00Comments on Echoes of Tattered Tongues: Memory Unfolded: Growing Up Polish AmericanJohn Guzlowskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-30069179802591026782017-07-12T09:51:01.612-07:002017-07-12T09:51:01.612-07:00John, My heart goes out for your family and all th...John, My heart goes out for your family and all the things they experienced and am so glad you are writing about it all. I just hope the people and kids of today try to learn what it was all like and what you all went through. I am 75 now and my people all came from Poland (Austrian side) in the mid to late 1800's and I was so glad that I paid attention to my Mom when she would tell me the things of when her Mom first came here. My family all settled in Md. My grandmother's husband left as soon as they got here but not before she had 3 daughter born in US. My grandmother and the 3 girls, one was my Mom lived in one room and my grandmother went to work in a packing house, The girls all went to work in a chocolate factory and sewing factories and worked in the fields in the Summer. My Mom said my grandmother would wake them up at 5 am to comb their hair and they sat and cleaned the one room until they left for school and by the time they were in the third grade, they had to stop and help by getting full time jobs, There was a fire in the building and one of the 3 sisters died in the fire. It seems Poles have always had it rough, very rough. They all wanted their children to have it better then they did. My Mom and Dad were married in 1920 when my Dad came back from the Navy in WW1. They worked hard and were first generation to be born here, My Dad worked his way up and became head pf Personal eventually of the Pennsylvania RR. My Mom worked in a sewing factory until my brother and I were born which was 21 years after their marriage because children just didn't come along . I lost them both in a year when they were 65 and I was only 23, but following Polish tradition to work hard and better oneself, I became an RN even though I had 3 children.....I have lost my parents, husband and 2 of my 3 sons and life has not been easy but I so admire you for writing about everything your family went through and hope and pray that this younger generation realize what life was like and the heartbreak they went through. You can't forget this stuff. It will never leave and the pictures in your mind will be there forever. Thank you for all your writings. Lorrainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16860322007477809801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-42599073545383173982017-02-26T14:59:42.615-08:002017-02-26T14:59:42.615-08:00Macon D. I am 8 years later to commenting on this,...Macon D. I am 8 years later to commenting on this,but as a half Eastern European American, of mostly Polish descent I am very offended by your dehumanizing statements. You don't get to deny our ethnic heritage and tell us we have to fit into so.w bland vanilla blob called White. In addition, those who are multiple generational wealthy elite is the US tend to be of Western and Northern European heritage. Eastern Europeans did not go colonizing the world and take part in the slave trade. In fact at a similar time in history some of our nation's were being colonized by Germany, Austria, and regularly invaded by an Empire in Turkey for Slave raids. Slave comes from the word Slav. You trying to tell us what we are and who are is bigoted and Racist. We will decide our own identity for ourselves. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969730582772729621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-6062284559601767752017-02-11T04:26:54.071-08:002017-02-11T04:26:54.071-08:00John, loved reading your essay, my great grandpare...John, loved reading your essay, my great grandparents came to Canada in 1894 before the wars and left family behind, family we know nothing about or what happened to them, I have been searching for a number of years and it is hard to find anything. But reading your story may help me understand something of them. Reading your essay made me feel like I was there with you, I will get your book it sounds like a true event, stories .I love to read, a true account of events. Thank you.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452977625011465351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-52373295355370311062016-09-27T20:10:48.878-07:002016-09-27T20:10:48.878-07:00Hi John, Your life parallels mine in so many ways....Hi John, Your life parallels mine in so many ways. We ( my mom ,brother and stepfather) came on the General Stewart June 1951. We settled in Lorain,Oh. My mom would never talk about her experience during WWII.I was born June 1944. Does that tell you.She remarried 1946 to a gd Russian. Your poems give me insight to our life in Germany and what my poor mom went through. I thank you again.Eugenia ( Sokolowsi) Kachurenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-67058558213477601872016-05-29T08:12:11.429-07:002016-05-29T08:12:11.429-07:00I too came with my mother and younger sister to Am...I too came with my mother and younger sister to America in 1950 from a displaced persons camp in Germany. We were in a concentration camp for almost a year and the displaced camp for five years. My father died in Buchenwald. I relate to you story because I was also there maybe not as dramatic as yours but nevertheless we also suffered. We came on a cargo boat not sure what the name was. Would like to find out. I will go thru the NY archives see if anything shows up. If by any chance you can send infor through FB that would be great. Bought your book Przez trzy Kacety and am still reading it. Looking forward to reading your latest book.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801292947988627471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-74039503413713120082016-05-24T11:37:58.094-07:002016-05-24T11:37:58.094-07:00I've never known anyone else to use that phras...I've never known anyone else to use that phrase "slach traffi" thx for the memory.<br />My mom used that phrase all the time.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01584731331374899599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-81795201500374964032016-05-24T11:36:04.494-07:002016-05-24T11:36:04.494-07:00When something went wrong my mom always said, slac...When something went wrong my mom always said, slach traffi.<br />Thx for the memory<br />I've never known anyone else that said that phrase.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01584731331374899599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-45446652872569574082014-10-15T05:50:56.539-07:002014-10-15T05:50:56.539-07:00Thank you, John. Powerful!Thank you, John. Powerful!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-33026789843355504262014-08-02T03:41:50.957-07:002014-08-02T03:41:50.957-07:00Eva, my father tried to return right after the war...Eva, my father tried to return right after the war with a group of other men. They were shot at my Russian soldiers at the Polish border.<br /><br />Later my uncle went back on a UN sponsored refugee train. When he got back to his home village in eastern Poland, the Russians took him off the train and shipped him to Siberia. <br /><br />He spent the rest of his life there.<br /><br />My parents understandably were afraid to return. <br /><br />They weren't the only ones. Almost a quarter of a million Poles went to the US. John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-59399928113493986552014-08-01T20:03:42.678-07:002014-08-01T20:03:42.678-07:00John, I just read your story tonight. Did your par...John, I just read your story tonight. Did your parents stay in Germany for 6 more years after the war ended? If so, why did they prefer to stay in a country that had kept them in a slave camp rather than return to Poland? I suspect your life would have been much happier in Poland than in Humbolt Park in Chicago. I for one, am very thankful I spent my childhood in Poland & not the U.S. I think there's still a lot of bigotry and racism here.Eva Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16656926674146800495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-38104596361348594492010-03-29T14:16:29.664-07:002010-03-29T14:16:29.664-07:00Dear Anonymous, thank you for writing and telling ...Dear Anonymous, thank you for writing and telling me what you felt. I sometimes run into people who don't people the stuff I write. They say, you were the only one who felt that way. It's good to know I wasn't the only one.<br /><br />If you want, drop me a line at jzguzlowski (at) gmail.comJohn Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-55549376558388950852010-03-29T12:42:03.203-07:002010-03-29T12:42:03.203-07:00John - I ran into your essays about being a DP in ...John - I ran into your essays about being a DP in Chicago just a few days ago by accident. My father was a DP. Not my mother. Her parents came to Chicago around 1900 from Poland, met and married. My parents met at one of the dance halls on Division Street (Polish Broadway) in the 50's and married. My brother and I were born in Chicago.<br /><br /> When I was born, my parents rented an apartment at Milwaukee and Chicago Ave. They then bought a house on Wolcott by Armitage. Later, we moved to North Ave and Kedzie. Finally, we moved way out to a suburb more than 40 miles out of the city.<br /><br />I really found your description of how Poles were hobbled interesting. Couldn't go to the movies, zoo, museums, etc. I got goosebumps up my arms and tingles down my spine. You were describing exactly what I "knew" and experienced but never understood or was able to define. What I "knew" has been with me for over 50 years and now, finally, I'm getting some insight into the "what and why" of what I experienced.<br /><br /> Since a very early age, I was repeatedly told not to reveal anything about being Polish to anyone. I lived in constant fear that I would betray my parents somehow by saying too much to a school friend or a neighbor.<br /><br />I'm actually crying right now as I'm typing this. <br /><br />In addition to your description of what Poles could not do, your essay about the "bad karma" brings up so many memories. Everything seemed to be a big ordeal....buying a car, buying furniture, clothes we wore, even what kind of Christmas tree we had and when we got it. Everything had to be difficult. Everything had to be cheap or we had to go without. There really was no happiness in our home. <br /><br />Now, finally, I might be able to deal with these memories, understand why they happened and let them go. It has been in only the last 5 or 6 years that I have even told people that I'm of Polish decent. Before that, I couldn't tell anyone, anything. I had been "trained" (particularily by my mother) to not tell anyone where my father was from, what nationality we were, etc. To say anything would be to "betray" my parents. Even now, though my father has been dead for over 20 years and my mother has been dead for over 10 years, I find it difficult to trust anyone with these "secrets" that have been stuffed inside of me. Now I'm slowly releasing them. It's been hard.<br /><br />Thank you for your essays.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-80167760100332494022009-07-25T10:57:21.127-07:002009-07-25T10:57:21.127-07:00Thanks, Indigenious X.
When I was growing up ther...Thanks, Indigenious X.<br /><br />When I was growing up there was much racism around me. Poles against Ukranians, Ukranians against blacks, Germans against Poles, Swedes against Jews and Puerto Ricans. The list goes on and on. <br /><br />The color of your skin, your language, where you were from, what your parents did for a living, what you ate, the god you believed in--all of this made you different and frightening. <br /><br />People were afraid and wanted to push the different ones away.<br /><br />I hope someday it will not be this way.John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-76940976624223349742009-07-25T10:46:05.358-07:002009-07-25T10:46:05.358-07:00It has been a year since the last comment on this ...It has been a year since the last comment on this post. I thank you for writing this. My family was displaced by the destruction of our neighborhood for the construction of the circle campus. We moved to a Polish part of Pilsen in 1963. I was subjected to many racists behaviors that taught me as a child that I was less than the whites. <br /><br />Your article brought out a side I never pondered of how another oppressed people basically repeated learned interactions with a group that they could dump on. <br /><br />Those days no longer impact me. Your article gives me a new dimension to consider of why many Polish people, especially the adults, were hostile to the new people in the neighborhood.Indigenous Xicanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741459773241994984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-14852493177452710132009-02-28T19:56:00.000-08:002009-02-28T19:56:00.000-08:00Thank You for the truth American Black Caucus and ...Thank You for the truth American Black Caucus and NAACP do not see us as minority and do not understand. on the view E. Hasselbeck said to Whoopie I do understand a lot from the experienced of my family members who suffered from discrimination because of being Polish in this country. Whoopies face distorted and she snarled No you dont understand anything! its not the same. Elizabeth got quiet but was not apologetic for any offence Whoopie imagined. Neither did Hasselbeck retract her truth that her family members had suffered discrimination too. Hasselbeck was right Whoopie was the one who was wrong it is she that did not have any idea. My Father worked many low paying dirty jobs and even had fights because of other men calling him Pollock. Dad never could make it to the top because some white Irish English was the one choosen. I still get mad after all these years the Dad spoke and wrote 3 languages played piano trumpet and acordian served his community and Democratic party Never missed mass or committed a crime but never did we get any money or privilidges like the other minority populations. why because we are white.Otherwise we would share the benefits of the 1975 amendment to the voting rights bill which states language minorities in the US are Ameican Indian, Alaskan Natives, Asian Americans, and Persons of Spanish heritage. I bet there are more African american or Asian and above listed millionaires in the United States because of the minority breaks. My guess is many of whites in America who are from Europe have had bad things happen but did they like the poles suffer slavery by the Germans and Russians. Most native Poles were not allowed to have an education or garner wealth unlike the Jews we have no treasures to extract so tell me why are we not considered minority status. Whiteness did not make anything easier once they heard the accent or saw the name so now the blacks actually from 65 on have had many more advantages there are no blanket inclusions for Polish Americans none for college studies Obamas opening to the convention about everymans journey his Father came to this country from Africa and went to Harvard yeah sounds like a typical scenario for all Polish American immigrants to me come from a village go to Harvard yeah thats real. I cant fathom why any immigrant would identify with that story if your a poor Polish guy who came here in the sixtys beleve me your brilliance did not matter Harvard wasnt open filling out papers did not give you the money that President Obamas Father enjoyed or even though his Father left after 2 years the funding of Obamas education through the benevolance of the majority of Americans. Anyway thats all I just dont get it why arent we more vocal about this probably because in this Country at least even Polish slaves (yes there have been many ) could seek freedom here. Long denied by Communism and Socialism in Poland. Did all of you know Polish American flyers like Gabreski were stabbed in the back by Churchill and Roosevelt yeah they dont teach that in school. the Polish Americans fought to free Poland only their President was captive in Poland so C R and S made a pact to parcial her up? Real good huh? so now tell me is being white in America enough Sir please use your gift to write poetry about this if you can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-78148652980394756992008-10-21T16:29:00.000-07:002008-10-21T16:29:00.000-07:00Dear Anonymous, Thanks for the note about growing ...Dear Anonymous, Thanks for the note about growing up in Chicago.<BR/><BR/>I felt pretty much the same way about the blacks and hispanics and southerners I grew up around. <BR/><BR/>We were the scattered seed, forgotten on the side of the road. <BR/><BR/>One of the things this taught me was to try to be kind and forgiving and helpful to others.John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-11268584141784133932008-10-21T13:17:00.000-07:002008-10-21T13:17:00.000-07:00I grew up in a non-Polish neighborhood on the sout...I grew up in a non-Polish neighborhood on the south side of Chicago, but I am Polish with a Polish name, of course. My family came to the US and we were pretty Americanized, but in school, just having a "ski" name labeled me for a sad amount of scrutiny. I always felt like I identified more with minorities, not whites, because of this. As an adult in my 20's I am very proud of my heritage and wouldn't change it if I could, but as a child I remember actually feeling angry that I had to have a Polish last name. <BR/><BR/> Unfortunately, I think Poles are expected to put up with more stereotyping, racism, whatever, because they are white. It doesn't quite fall into the category of racism according to our society. It is racism to me though. <BR/><BR/> You would think that as humans, we could be compassionate to others whose country has been demolished, but the American way is to make fun of those people.... very sadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-21362937158351641822008-04-16T07:23:00.000-07:002008-04-16T07:23:00.000-07:00Hi, John,Your essay reminds me of many similar iss...Hi, John,<BR/>Your essay reminds me of many similar issues growing up in upstate NY in the 50s and 60s. My grandparents were immigrants in the early 1900s. I've come to terms with the mixed feelings and written about them in my memoir, Off Kilter: A Woman's Journey to Peace with Scoliosis, Her Mother and Her Polish Heritage, Pearlsong Press, 2008.<BR/>Fascinating to me how the earlier immigrants have such an inferiority complex and the later ones don't. The Polish psychology is very complex. Best wishes and let's keep writing!<BR/>Linda Ciulik WisniewskiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-21187275405070815532008-04-09T08:55:00.000-07:002008-04-09T08:55:00.000-07:00I got the following from poet Robert Cooperman, an...I got the following from poet Robert Cooperman, and he asked me to share it as a comment:<BR/><BR/>John,<BR/> <BR/>Thanks for the article about your Chicago upbringing. <BR/><BR/>No one escapes easily, do they? <BR/><BR/>For you it was being Polish and therefore not American enough. For us, it was being Jewish and therefore Christ killers. Periodically the older, tougher Irish kids from St. Rose of Lima would come around and beat the crap out of us, especially one homicidal maniac, Tommy Lockhart, who probably would've murdered someone had he not discovered drugs and became a vegetable.John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-26011609037820411932008-04-09T04:08:00.000-07:002008-04-09T04:08:00.000-07:00Macon, I understand your position. I believe that ...Macon, I understand your position. I believe that discussions about discrimination and white privilege are somewhat skewed because they're using the U.S. as their case study. In Europe of the last and previous centuries, one would have had a harder time defining discrimination by color. The U.S. has been the poster child for white on black discrimination, but in other places it's more mixed up with other factors like religion, tribal animosities, political affiliations, etc. White vs. black has greater relevancy here than elsewhere.Urkathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17086121300436012432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-62646548768573671072008-04-08T21:12:00.000-07:002008-04-08T21:12:00.000-07:00Manfred, I appreciate your well-considered respons...Manfred, I appreciate your well-considered responses too.<BR/><BR/>In my readings, those who discuss whiteness don't overlook lower-class whiteness. Instead, they recognize that while that class positioning is generally a disadvantage, their racial positioning is generally the opposite. One doesn't obviate the other.<BR/><BR/>Regarding "privilege," I find the word applicable to perquisites still accorded white people. I rarely resort to dictionaries in discussions like this one, but, the first one I turn to (or rather, click to) defines privilege this way:<BR/><BR/><I>a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. <BR/>b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.</I><BR/><BR/>Seems to me that access to things that should be universal rights need not be explicitly kept from some for others to be "privileged," because the privileged have, in effect, greater access to them--the definition covers that. I have no problem with, for instance, calling my basic trust of the police in my neighborhood a white privilege. Given the difficulties blacks so often encounter with the police, I enjoy a privilege that they don't: being able to trust that my skin color will mean that such authority is likely to be on my side.<BR/><BR/>Finally, you wrote, "I also take issue with the generality of the term whites because 'white' is not a race."<BR/><BR/>Right, I do too, and so do all whiteness studies scholars and activists. They recognize that it's a social fiction, but that it nevertheless has real-world effects, and that the term still has social currency, and is thus still useful for referring to that social currency and to the people who bear it. In fact, many whiteness-studies thinkers would like to abolish whiteness, and call themselves race traitors or new abolitionists.<BR/><BR/>Finally, thanks for the book rec, John (though I think Jacobson's first book on whiteness is better).macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-8883533300432937072008-04-08T13:21:00.000-07:002008-04-08T13:21:00.000-07:00I came across a review of a book that addresses so...I came across a review of a book that addresses some of the issues we've been thinking about here concerning whiteness and ethnicity. <BR/><BR/>The book is by Matthew Frye Jacobson and it's called Roots Too: White Ethnic Revival in Post-Civil Rights America. (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2006.)<BR/><BR/>http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=210451174660158John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-78850325141058561662008-04-08T04:34:00.000-07:002008-04-08T04:34:00.000-07:00"Many white privileges occur merely because of tha..."Many white privileges occur merely because of that numerical preponderance,"<BR/><BR/>MaconD, I certainly appreciate your position on this. I would never deny African Americans have been, and continue to be, cruelly discriminated against. But theories of whiteness generally overlook the many White's who grew up poor and underprivileged, and who have been victimized by similar tendencies of some to exploit others.<BR/><BR/>One problem I have is with the word privilege. Things like finding a barber shop close by "should" be part of the rights of every citizen. They only become a privilege when such rights are denied to some but not others, making it seem like a special bonus to those not denied access. Freedom is a right, not a privilege, and just because whites in America have enjoyed proportionately more of it, doesn't make them priviliged, it just means African Americans have been denied some of their rights. I dislike it when people try to turn what should be a universal right into a privilege.<BR/><BR/>I also take issue with the generality of the term whites because "white" is not a race. However, I appreciate your concern for the rights of persons of color.Urkathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17086121300436012432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-84309740899253733492008-04-07T18:27:00.000-07:002008-04-07T18:27:00.000-07:00John wrote, "Do psychologists talk about a 'natura...John wrote, "Do psychologists talk about a 'natural' psychological tendency to believe your group (no matter how much hard karma it carries around) is better than some other group whose karma is as hard?"<BR/><BR/>In a way they have--Blumer's theory of group position comes to mind. I think it's pretty outdated, though. Explanations for the lower-order divisiveness that you describe seem to focus more on external than internal factors. Examples include the divide-and-conquer strategy of white overlords, whereby black and non-black (yet also, at that time, non-white) indentured servants were set against each other by declaring only the black ones slaves for life. Or later, when ethnic immigrants were pitted against each other to prevent a united front facing upward, and a striving toward whiteness for European immigrants, which had that lower-order divisive effect as well.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-549963549429593969.post-46523807822389090762008-04-07T10:16:00.000-07:002008-04-07T10:16:00.000-07:00Oma, thanks for the comment.One of the things I li...Oma, thanks for the comment.<BR/><BR/>One of the things I liked most about teaching was that I felt I was teaching students who came from the same place I came from. <BR/><BR/>I was a first generation college student who had parents who could barely speak English. My father in fact was almost illiterate. He could sign his name (if forced) and piece together words by studying the letters.<BR/><BR/>But I loved reading and dreaming about the world that college would open me up to.<BR/><BR/>Just like a lot of my own students.John Guzlowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13052735138993479204noreply@blogger.com